Discussion with Patrick Lackey

TR: All right, so it's a very special guest today, we have the founder of SNIP Studios, Patrick Lackey. Welcome Pat. Glad to have you.

PL: Thank you so much. Very excited to be here.

TR: So let's kick this off. If you don't mind giving us some more high level details around what you do and how your work fits into the broader entertainment landscape, that would be great.

PL:  On most of my projects, I work as a story producer or as an editor/post producer. What that means is I help develop the concept for what a tv show, commercial, or branded content will be. Typically, I will help creative directors develop the characters and progression of the story.  Then when it comes to longer form content, such as documentary series, I'm usually involved with post (production), helping the lead editors and lead producers with anything that they need. That typically involves digging for the best nuggets of footage to incorporate in the project. That’s pretty much what I do in terms of post production. Another thing that I work on a lot is story development from a pre-production stand point. I enjoy coming up with new concepts for series or for films and trying to get them off the ground. That's pretty much everything that I do.

Also, the reason that I started a company is because I could run productions through it or be hired and billed through it as an LLC, instead of being on someone's payroll as an individual.

TR: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense from a business perspective. On the note of what you specifically do, what drew you to this side of entertainment? What drew you to the combination of story development and post-production work?

PL: I think my answer is two-fold. To start, when I first started getting into filmmaking, I was really drawn to editing because I enjoyed utilizing the software. To me, editing felt like a puzzle that had an infinite number of solutions. I was very drawn to the fact that I could make something or I could see something in a way that nobody else could see it. It’s always unique, and it allows me to have total control over the final product. So that's why I got into editing at first. The reason I like unscripted and documentary work is because I have more raw content to play with compared to scripted. Scripted is very rigid and structured, but for documentary work, you're playing around with the pieces that you have and trying to tell a story based on that material. So that's why I got into post. Pretty much just because it's fun and intrigued me.

Eventually, I got into story development though and my first real staff job. I was working at Ross Greenburg Productions in New York. They did a bunch of behind the scenes documentary series with the NHL, and I played hockey in college, so I was really happy to work there. In between the projects I got to work on there, I would pitch my boss new concepts for shows that we could do.  I was probably coming up with two new ideas and two new pitch decks a week. It was really great practice because I was getting great feedback on what ideas would work, what ideas wouldn’t, which ones he was excited to try to sell, and which ones he wouldn't even think twice about.  Overall, I’d say learning the inside scoop from somebody with so much experience really helped me refine my taste and my approach to developing concepts.

TR: It seems that the underlying theme here is that you enjoy having a creative influence over the projects you're working on.  Editing gives you a lot of freedom to do that, but also getting to work on story ideas and pitches interests you.

PL: Yeah, exactly. And I think for both of those concepts, I'm kind of pulling something out of nothing. To form the edit, you look at all the raw material and put something together. Then for story development, you're reading an article or watching something on TV or meeting somebody and getting inspired to come up with a unique concept. So I really like the idea of pulling something out of nothing.

TR: At this point in your career, what is your primary method for getting work or jobs? Are you using job posting sites to get work, or is it mostly referrals at this point from people you've come in contact with?

PL: I've actually never had success through job posting sites and was only really trying them at the very beginning of my career. It's really all word of mouth and just references from people that I've worked with in past. I can actually think about individual jobs that I've had and tell you exactly how I got it through my web of connections from the beginning of my career. There's really only a handful of companies that I've worked with that were from cold calls or emails. Most of them are honestly from my network. Somebody knows that one of their friends is looking for a certain type of help for a specific project, so they reach out to me and I jump on the phone with them for ten minutes and we figure something out if it’s a good fit.

TR: On that note, I think a big question that a lot of people have when they try to start cracking into the entertainment business is how to best go about it, since it can seem sort of daunting to somebody who's new to the industry without a network.  So how did you go about getting your start in the industry and building a network? And do you have any advice for somebody who's looking to start a career in film or entertainment?

PL: Yeah, I think my story of how I actually got my start will sound unique, but it can be applied to pretty much anyone and may sound cliche. When I started, I knew what I wanted to do. I knew that I wanted to work on unscripted content, and because I was so interested in hockey shows, I actually made a behind the scenes hockey show for my own college hockey team that I was playing on. Then after I graduated, I had a connection that worked at the NHL, who I asked to introduce me to Ross Greenburg of Ross Greenburg Productions, who made those 24/7: Road to the Winter Classics with HBO and Quest for the Stanley Cup once he left HBO. So for me, it was just networking to get started. Networking sounds so broad, and I actually hate the term and to think about it like that.  But, when it comes down to it, how I'm getting my jobs is through networking and usually it's not out of the blue. Usually there's some form of connection or relationship beforehand that I will try to tap into.

I guess my advice to somebody trying to break into the industry is to make projects that you are super passionate about and don't do them with any other purpose other than trying to practice.  Because then at some point, once you have something you're proud of, you can share it with somebody that you look up to or that you want to work with, and if it catches their eye, you might just get your foot in the door. Then from there, you just have to work hard and do a good job, and then people will continue to contact you for work. Until you get one foot in though, it's definitely difficult, so just reach out to as many people as you can and try to show that you're connected to them in some way whether it's the school you went to or where you grew up, etc.

TR: So try and find some common interests with the people you’re hoping to network with as a way to get their attention. That’s a good strategy. I also like that bit of advice to work on things you're passionate about. It can be a long and trying process, so if you're actually working on projects you care about, regardless of if it gets you that next opportunity, you'll at least enjoy it.

PL: Exactly, and it's great experience for when you face a situation where you where you need to do something on short notice. If there's a fire drill that you're faced with when you're on a job and you've dealt with it before on your own personal project, it'll just be that much easier to handle.

TR: So as a follow up to getting your foot in the door and establishing yourself, at what point did you feel comfortable making the jump to freelance for your career? Because that's obviously a daunting transition for a lot of people not having a steady stream of income.

PL: It was definitely a difficult decision. I had been at Ross Greenburg Productions in New York for a year and a half, and at that point I'd worked on a handful of the behind the scenes hockey documentary series.  I felt like I was ready to branch out and get a few different credits on my resume.  I was ready to have different types of experiences and put myself in a new position within the industry, and I just wanted to always be on a project rather than living in between them. That being said, I did really enjoy the development experience that I gained in between projects while at that job, but I was really loving working in Avid media composer and being in the software and feeling fully engaged with the projects. I was just looking for more of that.

What gave me the courage to jump though is that I had a handful of people that I knew liked working with me from past projects, and I felt they would get my name out there and put their neck on the line for me. So that gave me the confidence to make the jump to freelance. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have made that jump without having something else lined up first. Like, I didn't have my next project lined up when I jumped, and when I told my boss that I was leaving to become freelance, he even asked me what I had lined up, but I didn't have anything. Pretty much right when I was done with my full-time job though, I somehow had a handful of projects ready for me to work on.  I got pretty lucky that I didn't have too much downtime in between my full-time job and freelance.

TR: Yes, definitely a fortunate transition, since I imagine some people might make that jump and the work might not come in and can be stuck struggling for a little while.

PL: Yeah, and I know a few people that has happened to. I would definitely encourage people to try to line something up. That’s something I try to do now too as a standard. As my projects are ending, I'll start reaching out to people I've worked with in the past to let them know that I'm becoming available and just to catch up with them and see what they have going on in case they could use my help.

TR: Yeah, I think that's a really smart strategy, even if they don't have anything going on. It's soft networking. It's not over the top, but you're checking in.

PL: And again, it's the same thing as before. Even if they don't have something, their friend or somebody else in the industry might need someone like me and they'll say, so I don't have a project going on right now, but my friend does.

TR: I think one aspect of career growth that is often overlooked is the use of mentorships to build inroads and experience. Do you personally have any experience with a mentor in the industry that has helped you in your career? And do you have any advice around finding one or seeking one out?

PL: I actually have a few pieces of advice on this. I think, first, the mentorship should totally come organically. It should be somebody that you have a good rapport with and somebody that you like working with and somebody that you look up to at the same time. If they're in a place that you would like to be in the future or if they do the work that you want to work on in the future, then that's a good place to start. That's a good person to think of. But it should be somebody that you naturally click with so nothing feels forced. It should feel organic. And then my second piece of advice is that I don't think you should limit yourself just one mentor. I think it can be a handful of people that you enjoy working with. Maybe they know each other, maybe they don't, but the more people you have looking out for you or the more people that you can learn from, the better off you are. Compare and contrast what each of them does and where there's overlap for things that you think are probably good practices. If they all do it, then you can probably assume that that's something good for you to do as well.

TR: I think that's a good point, identifying the trends amongst different people you admire and then try to emulate that.

PL: That's right. And it's tough if you only had one mentor because maybe they're the exception, not the rule. But there's no way to know that unless you can compare them to other people you also admire.

TR: Wrapping up here, we have two more questions for you. First, do you have any side projects or passion projects going on that you're excited about right now?

PL: Yeah, so I feel like I always have a few pots boiling. On top of the current documentary that I'm helping to produce and edit, I’m working on some short form branded documentaries, mostly in the outdoor, adventure sports space. I'm also overseeing a podcast for a friend's new venture. And besides those, the other thing that I'm really excited about is developing some longer form, bigger budget docuseries to try to pitch to production companies. I have a few solid ideas that I'm very excited about, and I think the timing is right on them. Once I find some partners that think they’re good ideas as well, then I will get to work on them in a higher capacity and have more creative control over them. I'm in a spot where I feel comfortable and confident enough to try to actually get one of these ideas off the ground.

TR: That's a good place to be, and how do you how do you typically budget your time around your side hustles?

PL: I definitely prioritize the actual job that I'm getting paid to do at that moment.

TR: That's probably a good strategy haha.

PL: Yeah haha. Whenever that work is done for the day or for the week, then I switch gears and move to the side projects. That usually means late nights or a productive weekend.

TR: Right, so we'll wrap up here with a final question. The entertainment industry is full of trends, whether it's the content that's being made or the way it’s being consumed. Are there any trends that interest you moving forward?

PL: Yeah, I can think of a few trends that are intriguing to me right now. It feels like brands are more willing to fund projects on their own if they get to put their name on it in terms of unscripted documentaries, at least. As long as the mood and topic of the documentary is somehow in line with the brand, or maybe the characters are. If the documentary is relevant to that brand and they want to be associated with it, brands are willing to help fund projects. That's interesting to me because you don't need to get a giant network or a distributor on board to make your project happen, and it doesn't have to come out of your pocket entirely either. Finding brands to attach to projects is a trend that has been around, but it feels more attainable now for smaller projects. So that's interesting. And then another trend I'm seeing is a lot of shows are becoming shorter either in the duration of each episode or in the number of episodes available or the number of seasons. For me, that means when I develop concepts, they don't need to be massive ideas to be renewed three, four years down the road; they can be shorter term. People have shorter attention spans now, so that's the trend. It just is opening up the door to more ideas that wouldn't have been considered before.

TR: Awesome. Well, I think that covers everything we wanted to talk about here today. I appreciate you coming on, Pat. It was a pleasure.

PL: Thank you so much. This has been fun. Let me know if you ever want to do this again.

Follow Pat Lackey at his Company Website